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Stane Crnjak @staneC 17. Avg 2007, 10:41

Evo, tole sem najdel na netu curtain

--------
There are three basic types of panels for LCD monitors, TN, VA, and IPS.
Of all three only VA and IPS panels can be acceptable for photography.

There are very few panel manufacturers and most monitors share the same panel with many other models.

The top players for LCD panels are, Samsung, LG.Philips, AUO, and also with a smaller share, Mitsubishi, Hitatchi, Sharp, and NEC.

Top of the line monitors like EIZO CG19, CG21, CG210, CG220, NEC spectraview 1980, 1990, 2180, 2190, Quato Inteliproof 190, 210, 230, LaCie 319, 321, use high quality IPS panels from Mitsubishi, Hitatchi or NEC.

High quality monitors like EIZO L778, L768, L887, S1910, S1931 S2100, NEC 1980FXi 1990SXi, 2180UXi, 2190UXi, Samsung 970P, 971P, share VA or IPS panels from Samsung, LG.Philips, Hitatchi, NEC or Sharp.

Most of the times you will find monitors that cost even half the price of an EIZO or a NEC that shares the same panel.

The secret here is the electronics, the software and the way the backlight works
as well as the quality control.

Most low budget monitors fall short in the following departments:
1)Viewing angles, anything below 170 degrees both horizontal and vertical is not acceptable for serious photo editing.
2)Shaddow detail or deep blacks. Most monitors cannot display deep blacks and some that can, loose in shaddow detail.
3)Brightness levels too high for photo editing.
People that work in very bright rooms need the extra brightness most monitors today can offer, but for critical photo editing we should be working in low light environment and the ideal LCD monitor brightness should be well below the 120-140 candelas that is generaly accepted as "normal".
4)Color shifts when viewed at an angle.
Even some good monitors suffer from color shifts when viewed at an angle even if their viewing angle measurments are above 170.
5)Light uniformity and light leakage.
6)Bad pixels. Although even good monitors can have bad pixels usualy the quality control is tighter on the higher level monitors.
7)Color gammut. This should be higher in the list but unless you get a monitor with TN panel and 6bit color the problem will not be that big.
Stick to IPS or VA panels with more than 16milion colors and it will not be your biggest problem.

There are at least three technical specifications that you should never look at.
Contrast ratio, responce times, and latency.
None of them is important or relevant to the qualities of a monitor for photo editing.

There is at least one technical specification that what is good for most is not good at all for photo editing and that is brightness.
High numbers most of the times, equal trouble.

This was the introduction to LCD monitors I'll get back to it tomorrow since it's 05:10 in the morning here and it's time for me to sleep.


Še nasvet za nakup:

Let's talk about recommendations now.

Top of the line monitors:

1)EIZO CG220, EIZO CG221, NEC Spectraview Reference21, NEC Spectraview 2180WG LED, QUATO Inteliproof 230, and QUATO Intelliproof 213, are the top of the tops.
The cost of these monitors is prohibiting for most of us but if you want the Rolls Rouce of monitors these are the ones.
http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/index.asp
http://www.quato.de/english/index.html
http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/specials/spectraview/index-en.html

DDC hardware calibration for all of them ensures the best possible calibration.

If you shoot with a large format camera and a scanning back or a medium format camera with one of the latest 39MP backs from Phase One, Haselblad, Sinar, etc
You should seriously think about these monitors.

2)Not far behind in performance you can get the EIZO CG210, EIZO CG211, EIZO CG19, QUATO Intelliproof 201, 190
You can call these the Mercedes S-Class of monitors.

These monitors are also DDC Hardware calibrated for absolut performance.

A Perfect companion if you are a commercial, fashion, or just perfectionist photographer and shoot with a medium format camera and a digital back or one of the best full frame DSLRs and only the best lenses available.

3)Again not far behind you can find a bunch of very good monitors like the LaCie321, 320, 319, NEC Spectraview 2190, 2180, 2090, 2080, 1990, 1980, EIZO L797, L997, CE210W, CE240W, QUATO intellicolor 190, 201, 213.

Some of them also support DDC hardware calibration for maximum performance but even with simple hardware calibration the perfornance is going to be tops.

These are the monitors to look for if you are serious about color but don't want to break the bank.

They are not cheap but then, is your 70-200IS cheap? or your 85 f1.2?

I'm sure that you don't shoot with a 20D or a D70 either and all your lenses are f2.8 or less.

4)One step down in performance but still very good monitors are the EIZO L578, S1721, S1910, S1931, L778, L788, L887, S2000, S2100, S2110, S2410, NEC 1980FXi,
1990SXi, 2080UXi, 2090Uxi, 2180UXi, 2190UXi, and the Samsung 970P and 971P.

These are monitors that calibrate well and after calibration they don't fall much behind.

These are the monitors to look for, if you are a serious about color professional photographer that is more concious about value for money than absolute quality.
This is the line of monitors that you should look for, if you are a CRT fan.
These are probably better than CRTs unless you had a Sony Artisan a Mitsubishi or a LaCie.

5)One step down in performance you will find many monitors that after a hardware calibration will be at least acceptable for color critical work but be prepared for some compromises.
Apple Cinema Displays, Lacie 119, 120, 121 are the safest bet here with other monitors with similar VA or IPS panels coming next.

Most of the times the compromises will be acceptable unless they don't calibrate well.

The most common problems here are, excess brightness, lack of deep blacks, shaddow and highlight detail, and color shifts.

Some monitors in this range are the HP2065, DELL ultrasharp series of monitors (if you are lucky since DELL is using different panels upon availability so it's like gambling here) some more NECs like the 1970NX BK and 20WGX pro, Fujitsu P19-2, P19-1, LG L2000C, and the Samsung 214T and 244T.

I don't personaly recommend any one of them but I'm sure most people will be happy to have one of them if they are not very demanding.

Any monitor with a TN panel and/or less than 16 milion colours is totaly unacceptable for anything that involves photography.

Get one if you want a cheap monitor for palettes and/or gaming and thats about it.

---

Tole je pa moja razlaga. Če ga prav razumem, je kategorija 4. za "L" ali "zlatočrtne" objektive in crop senzorje. Za crop senzor in consumer objektive bo pa zadoščala kategorija 5. Kategorije 1,2,in 3 medium format diđital back,, FF in objektivi, kjer se f začne z 1 in konča pred 1,8. Drugače razlike videl ne boš. Bo nekako tako?
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Bojan Šporar @bojansporar 17. Avg 2007, 10:44

xpr0ject je napisal/a:
Imajo kolegi v sluzbi, niti priblizno ni vreden svojega denarja, govorimo o cinema displeju za vec kot 2000k evrov.

Torej, ne kopuj.

LP


2000 EUR stane 30" Apple Cinema LCD.

Mislil sem bolj na 20 inčnega, ki se ga dobi že za 600 EUR (m-store.at iz Graza, pri FMC.si je 630 EUR), kar je primerljivo z zgoraj navedenim Dellovim modelom, ima pa Apple seveda tudi S-IPS matriko.

Sicer sem videl po testih, da sta Dell/Apple 20" LCDja bolj kot ne blizu drug drugega, malce boljši naj bi bil Dell (ker je črna popolnoma črna, čeprav naj bi oba v osnovi imela isti panel od proizvajalca LG-Philips, torej hudih razlik le ne more biti).

Zanima me pa čist iz prakse, če je imel kakšen uporabnik probleme ali pa je nezadovoljen z Applom.

Lp,
Bojan
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Matjaz @mbbirdy 17. Avg 2007, 12:37

fotokaj je napisal/a:
[Kaj, porkamadona, sem pa jaz napisal?? bigeek


Najprej behave yourself s primitivci se ne želim pogovarjati ...
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Andrej @fotokaj 17. Avg 2007, 14:07

:finger: - to je tist smeško, ki fakitcha kaže, sam zgleda dela sam na vriskaču...
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Miran @fisheye 17. Avg 2007, 19:59

Fotokaj malo sem pobrskal po netu in na strani od LG zasledil, da monitor http://www.enaa.com/oddelki/racunalnistvo/product.asp?dept_id=1781&pf_id=073854 nima S-IPS matrike ampak MVA matriko katera je med TM in S-IPS. Ne vem mogoče se motim??? LPM thumbsup


Panel MVA

Resolution 1600 x 1200

Pixel Pitch 0.255 x 0.255

Brightness 300 cd/㎡

Contrast Ratio 2000:1(DFC)

Viewing Angle 178/178

Response Time 8ms(GTG)

Display Colors 16.8M

Sync Range

Horizontal Frequency 30 ~ 83 kHz

Vertical Frequency 56 ~ 75 Hz

Input Signal

Video Signal RGB Analog, Digital

Sync type Separate, Composite, SOG

Connectors

PC 15 Pin D-sub, DVI-D

Plug & Play

DDC DDC/CI

Power Supply AC 90~264 V (47 ~ 63Hz)

Power Switch Type Tact

Power Consumption

On 58W

Stand-by / Suspend 1W

DPM Off 1W

User Control

Type Tact type

Button 5EA(Power Key Included)


Functions f-Engine, sRGB, Auto Resolution


Mechanical

Dimension(W x H x D) 446 x 448 x 243mm


Stand Tilt, Pivot, Height(Base detachable)


Regulations

Safety UL,cUL,TUV-GS,SEMCO

EMC FCC-B,CE

Low radiation TCO-03

Ergonomics ISO13406-2

Power saving EPA Energy Star
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Robert @Seddy 17. Avg 2007, 20:14

Osebno bom najbrz naredu nekaj takole: 1 uber cheap monitor 22" WS za 200 eur, enega pa 20.1 DELL z S-IPS panelo.

Kako pa je z HW kalibracijo dveh monitorjev na enem sistemu ? A je to fizicno mogoce ?
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Anže @Anzej 17. Avg 2007, 20:23

jest osebno mam doma sync masterja s tv tunerjam pa je zlo dobr sicer mam 19 inčnga ampak wide vrjanto. Če pa bi se jest odločou bi pa kupu tega tanovga 226BW 22'' LCD wide DVI Samsung.
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Bojan Šporar @bojansporar 17. Avg 2007, 20:27

@Seddy: Ce imas dva DVI izhoda (kar je celoten smisel priklopa dveh LCDjev), načeloma (zgolj načeloma) software od kartice to omogoča, seveda pa je potrebno pri vsaki grafični kartici to prej preveriti.

Če se ti tvoja grafična kartica že v nastavitvah predstavlja dvojno, tj. kot da imaš dva adapterja, si na dobri poti.
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Andrej @fotokaj 17. Avg 2007, 20:30

Fisheye:
fotokaj je napisal/a:
(obstajajo trije modeli: L2000C, L2000CE in L2000CN, pravi oz. ustrezen je le model L2000C, saj ima edini izmed trojice S-IPS matriko)

Ja, modela CE in CN imata pa MVA matriko. Kalibriraš lahko več monitorjev na enem sistemu, dokler... tvoja grafična kartica to podpira! Jaz na to ob lanskem kupovanju nove kište sploh nisem mislil, a sem k sreči kupil takšno (GF 7900GT), ki podpira dva monitorja, oz shranjevanje dveh profilov dveh ločenih zaslonov istočasno.
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Martin Peca @mPECA 17. Avg 2007, 20:43

važno je da sta dva bela priključka zadaj...


slika:

http://www.pcfloripa.com.br/loja/images/vga_256mb_7900gt_pcie.jpg

oskubljene različice imajo tudi po 1DVI in 1VGA izhod...


namreč dva monitorja na različnih izhodih je veliko kakanje... kr je DVI v veliki prednosti kar se tiče ostrine in tudi barv... pač kvaliteta slike je dosti višja!
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Robert @Seddy 18. Avg 2007, 07:55

Hvala za informacije.
Ce pa ze graficna nima dveh DVi, sem pa studiral, da bi prvo priklopil boljsi monitor, ga skalibriral, nato pa se slabsega. Ne vem pa koliko je to mozno.
Na dveh zaslonih tako ali tako ne pregledujes in obdelujes grafike.
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Andrej @fotokaj 18. Avg 2007, 09:29

Seddy je napisal/a:
Ne vem pa koliko je to mozno.


Ni možno, saj ustvarjenih profilov ne shranjuješ v monitor ...
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Klemen @DkleMAN 18. Avg 2007, 13:35

Tudi jaz si bom v kratkem kupil nov monitor... torej je L2000C-SF optimalna izbera?
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Robert @Seddy 18. Avg 2007, 15:52

Vem princip delovanja ICC profilov. Govoril sem o tem, da bi kalibriral le boljsi monitor, slabsi, z tn matriko bi mi sluzil zgolj za ostale zadeve. Saj nikoli nimas slike razpotegnjene cez 2 ekrana ko jo obdelujes.
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Gorazd Zupančič @Zupi 19. Avg 2007, 11:17

Jaz obdelujem fotke na DELL 2007WFP, sem zelo zadovoljen, ni pa ravno pocen.
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LeVaK @levak 21. Avg 2007, 09:37

Sem sem se pred kratkim tudi znašel v dvomih kateri ekran kupiti. Na koncu sem se odločal med NEC 1990SXi in NEC 2070NX. Oba imata S-IPS matriko, s to razliko, da 1990SXi omogoča še hardversko kalibracijo. Cena obeh monitorjev je 600€.

Na koncu je padla odločitev za 2070NX, saj mi resolucija 1600x1200 pride zelo prav. Prav tako sva ga s kolegom iz e-fotografija foruma skalibrirala in po testih so vse barve znotraj zelenega polja, le bordo rdeča malo seka. Kalibrirala sva pa na 6500K in 140cd/m^2.

Matej
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iztok @izo 21. Avg 2007, 09:42

Seddy je napisal/a:
Osebno bom najbrz naredu nekaj takole: 1 uber cheap monitor 22" WS za 200 eur, enega pa 20.1 DELL z S-IPS panelo.

Kako pa je z HW kalibracijo dveh monitorjev na enem sistemu ? A je to fizicno mogoce ?


seveda je možno, da skalibriraš 2 monitorja na istem pc-ju (sej misliš na to varianto, da nucaš 2 hkrati? seveda morš imet tudi primerno kartico z 2 neodvisnimi izhodi itd), vsai boljši kalibratoji imajo to opcijo (recimo ta novi huey pro, če hočeš bolj buđet varianto). bo pa jsano še vedno nekaj razlike med barvami ipd med dvema različnima lcd-jema, kot pa z dvema istima modeloma.
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tilen @rebi 29. Sep 2008, 22:57

uf, leto stara tema, pa vseeno:

fotokaj, ti menda ne uporabljaš L2000C???? glede na to, kak fotkič maš?


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